0203: Attachment & the Enneagram
HOW EACH TYPE COPES, CONNECTS AND PROTECTS IN RELATIONSHIPS with Whitney Russell, LPC-S, CEDS-C
Eden:
This is Inside Out. Hey everyone, I’m Eden Hyder—a licensed therapist, psychology teacher, and proud mother of two. I’m here to help us all press pause so we can re-engage with what matters most: ourselves, our relationships, and our kids—from the inside out.
For more on relationships, parenting, and mental health between episodes, follow me on Instagram or visit edenhyder.com.
Welcome to Season Two. This season, I’m sharing a series of insightful conversations with professionals from various fields, exploring how attachment themes show up in everyday life.
In today’s episode, we’re looking at how each Enneagram type may express secure or insecure attachment—through anxious, avoidant, or disorganized patterns. We’ll walk through all nine types, examine their core motivations, relational stances, and what growth toward secure connection can actually look like.
Let’s jump in.
Eden:
Hey Whitney, welcome to the Inside Out podcast.
Whitney:
Hello! I’m glad to be here.
Eden:
It’s so fun to have you on. We’ve known each other for years, and I’ve been itching to record a conversation with you about these two topics: attachment and the Enneagram. But before we jump in, can you introduce yourself? Tell us a little about your background and how you got into the Enneagram.
Whitney:
Sure. I’m Whitney Russell, a therapist in the Dallas area—specifically Richardson. I’ve had a private practice for over 10 years, and I’ve worked across all levels of care—from outpatient to residential treatment centers. So I’ve seen a wide range of people and experiences.
My introduction to the Enneagram started through my mother-in-law, Suzanne Stabile. I had taken one of those online tests in a supervisor training before, but no one really explained it afterward. So I knew what the Enneagram was, but not how deep it really went.
When I started dating my husband—Suzanne’s son—it became part of daily life. It’s the language we use in our marriage, our parenting, our understanding of the world. It’s also a huge part of how I conceptualize clients. Many even seek me out specifically because of the Enneagram. It fast-tracks rapport, clarifies their core motivations, and helps shape a really tailored treatment plan.
Eden:
Yes, exactly. That’s been my experience too. Once I have a sense of someone’s number, it feels like I suddenly have access to this whole relational map. Sometimes it even feels psychic!
Whitney:
Totally! People are like, “Wait… how do you know that?”
Eden:
I remember you walking into our team office back when we worked in residential care—you were my director, I was a therapist—and you said, “Alright, we’re going to talk about this Enneagram thing. Figure out your number—I already have a guess.”
At first, I resisted. I was like, “I’m a Two? No way.” And then... “Oh wait. I definitely am.”
It was such a helpful tool, especially in a high-stress setting like residential. We needed to understand each other quickly—how we communicate, how we cope under pressure—and the Enneagram gave us that shared language.
For me, attachment is that same kind of lens. It’s the framework I use for understanding my clients, my kids, and myself. Like you said, the Enneagram is the air you breathe—attachment is the invisible math my brain is doing all the time.
So I’m excited to put both lenses together today.
Before we jump into the types, here’s a question I get often:
Is your Enneagram number something you’re born with? Or is it shaped by your environment—more nature, or nurture?
Whitney:
That’s a great question. Everyone has their own theory, but mine is: you’re born with a predisposed temperament—you’re probably already in a certain stance or triad. But I think nurture—your caregivers, friendships, environment, and culture—refines that into a specific number.
Take two kids from the same parents—they can still land in very different places.
Eden:
Yes, that’s the same explanation I tend to give. There’s a temperament you’re born with, and then attachment dynamics—like caregiver attunement, access to emotional support, or early stress—shape how you adapt.
So for our listeners, just to review:
In attachment theory, we talk about secure attachment and three insecure styles:
Anxious-ambivalent (preoccupied)
Avoidant-dismissive
Disorganized (fearful-avoidant)
We’ll mostly be referencing the first two today, but we might be surprised.
And I also want to name the five core attachment needs I introduced in Season One:
🔹 Safety, Security, Comfort, Relief, and Validation
Let’s see how those show up across the Enneagram types—especially in early wounds and relationship patterns.
ENNEAGRAM ONEs
Let’s start with your number. Type One.
Whitney:
Yes—Ones are often called the Perfectionist. We love rules, structure, and knowing what to expect. That creates a sense of safety. But we also carry a lot of expectations—of ourselves and others. When those aren’t met, we can feel resentment.
Anger—specifically internalized anger—is the passion or “sin” of the One. It builds up, and then we blow—sometimes at the wrong person, just because they were the final straw.
Our core wound is: It’s not okay to make mistakes.
And the lost childhood message is: You are good.
That can be hard to internalize. I know I often feel like I’m a good person, but in certain roles—mother, therapist, friend—I still struggle with self-doubt. That’s where the relentless inner critic comes in.
Eden:
What you’re describing makes me think about Ones as fiercely independent and high-functioning—but when it comes to intimacy, they can struggle to receive validation at a deeper level. On the outside, it might look like avoidant-dismissive attachment. But underneath, that need for affirmation is still very present.
Whitney:
That’s a great observation. Ones are in the dependent stance, which means we do rely on the outside world to tell us if we’re doing a good job. So it’s interesting—we might be avoidant in behavior, but anxiously attached in motivation.
Eden:
That’s exactly where I see attachment overlap with stances. So in an insecure relationship, what might a One look like?
Whitney:
Needing constant reassurance. As a supervisor, I’ve had Ones who frequently ask, “Am I doing this right?” or “Was that okay?” And over time, it can feel like, “Trust yourself. You’ve got this.” But that just shows the depth of their wound—needing external validation to feel secure.
Eden:
So for a One wanting to move toward secure attachment, what’s a starting point?
Whitney:
It starts with your relationship to yourself. Let yourself make mistakes. Learn to ride the discomfort instead of fixing it right away. Pause before you over-apologize. Ask: Have I already made repair? Can I let this go?
You don’t have to be perfect to be loved.
ENNEAGRAM TWOs
Eden:
Yes. Okay, let’s move on to Twos. Tell me about… me.
Whitney:
Twos are the people-pleasers. They're the therapists of the friend group, the “mom” of the group—they want to help, support, and take care of everyone, sometimes to their own detriment.
I love when Suzanne says, “Twos want people to believe they love everyone.”
It’s true. Twos are deeply relationship-focused. Their minds are often preoccupied with thoughts about others—how relationships are going, what others need, how to help. But that mental load can become exhausting.
The core wound for Twos is: It’s not okay to have your own needs.
So they put others first. Always.
Their lost childhood message is: You are wanted.
But they often settle for being needed—which is why it’s so powerful in relationship to tell a Two: “You’re wanted here—even when I don’t need anything from you.”
Eden:
That distinction between being needed and being wanted… it’s everything. If a Two is building a relationship on being needed, it can spiral into codependency or an unhealthy dynamic where they lose themselves. But a secure relationship is one rooted in choice and mutuality: “I want to be here with you. Not because I need something—because I see you.”
Whitney:
Yes. And for me personally, as a Two, I definitely resonate with an anxious-preoccupied attachment style. If no one around me needs anything from me, I can have that “black hole” moment—who am I if I’m not helping?
Eden:
Yes. I feel that too. And it’s a constant practice for Twos—holding on to your own confidence and allowing yourself to exist apart from what you offer others.
Whitney:
It really is. Twos are wired for codependency. So becoming securely attached is about catching those patterns early—asking, “Am I over-functioning? Am I attaching through helping? Or am I showing up from a grounded place?”
Eden:
Same with parenting. One of my kids feeds that helper dynamic in me—and the other absolutely does not. And when they don’t “need” me, it can trigger that inner script of “I must be failing.”
Whitney:
Yes! It’s so real. I have that dynamic too. And the work is not pushing in more when you’re not needed—but allowing them to be who they are, and not tying that back to your worth.
Eden:
So for Twos moving toward secure attachment, it’s about holding space for your own feelings—especially in moments of tension or disconnection. Learning to tolerate discomfort without rushing in to fix it. And finding ways to seek comfort or relief that don’t depend on someone needing you back.
Okay—let’s move on to Threes.
ENNEAGRAM THREEs
Whitney:
Threes are the Achievers. Their wound is: It’s not okay to have your own feelings or identity.
They’re the performers—able to walk into any room and become who they need to be to succeed. And “success” depends on context—it could be being the best lawyer, the best teacher, the best parent.
But in that shapeshifting, Threes can lose touch with who they are. They disconnect from their own feelings and desires.
Their lost childhood message is: You are loved for who you are, not just what you do.
Eden:
So many of the Threes I’ve known are incredibly capable and high-performing—but there’s often a vacuum inside, a kind of quiet disorientation. It’s like: “If I’m not winning or producing, do I even matter?”
Whitney:
Yes. Threes are in the aggressive stance—also called the independent stance. Unlike dependent types (Ones, Twos, Sixes) who look to others for feedback, aggressive types don’t rely on the outside world to define them.
That said, Threes do care what others think—it just doesn’t necessarily shape their self-concept. But they do orient themselves around how others will perceive their performance.
Eden:
So they’re not asking, “Who am I?” They’re asking, “Who do I need to be in this room?”
Whitney:
Exactly. But Threes have amazing gifts too—they’re visionaries, planners, and doers. Threes and Ones can look similar in terms of productivity, but a key difference is: if someone interrupts a One with a need, they’ll likely drop everything to help. A Three? They’ll probably say no. It’s not unkind—it’s just goal-focused.
Eden:
That rings true. And it makes me think Threes lean more toward an avoidant-dismissive attachment style. People in relationship with Threes often say they feel secondary to the Three’s work or goals. There's a sense of distance—not emotional coldness, just… lack of availability.
Whitney:
Yes. Threes can struggle to connect emotionally in close relationships. And they may not even realize it’s happening. The goal orientation can mask emotional needs—until those needs become overwhelming.
Eden:
So for Threes moving toward secure attachment, it starts with slowing down, tuning inward, and asking: What do I feel? What do I need?
It’s about being loved not for your achievements—but for your presence.
Let’s keep going. Type Four.
ENNEAGRAM FOURs
Whitney:
Fours are the Romantics. They feel everything—often the full spectrum of emotions multiple times a day. They have rich internal worlds and tend to see beauty and meaning everywhere.
The childhood wound for Fours is: It’s not okay to be too functional or too happy.
They’re often more comfortable in emotional depth—even darker emotions.
The lost message is: You are seen for who you are.
Fours crave deep understanding, but also want to be utterly unique—which makes being known… complicated.
Eden:
Yes—how do you fully know someone who’s trying not to be like anyone else? That dynamic can be hard in relationships.
Whitney:
Fours often fall into push-pull patterns—longing for closeness, then feeling misunderstood and withdrawing. Their emotions shift quickly, which can feel like emotional whiplash to a partner.
Eden:
From an attachment lens, I often see Fours as fearful-avoidant or disorganized. Many of the Fours I work with didn’t have a consistent way to get their needs met as kids. So now, they try different relational strategies—sometimes seeking closeness, other times withdrawing fast.
Whitney:
Yes—and they can change how they feel about something so quickly. You might feel like you’re on the same page, and then suddenly… you’re not.
Eden:
Exactly. The inconsistency can be confusing for partners. But it’s often not about the other person—it’s about the Four’s internal sense of self and stability.
For Fours moving toward secure attachment, the work is staying grounded—learning to tolerate steady, reliable love even when it doesn’t feel emotionally intense. Letting someone see all of you—even the parts that aren’t dramatic or poetic.
Eden:
Yes, and I imagine that for someone in relationship with a Four—whether that’s a partner, parent, or friend—that emotional shifting can feel destabilizing. One minute you’re tracking together, and then suddenly, it feels like you’re not even in the same conversation.
Whitney:
Exactly. And it’s not malicious—it’s just that a Four’s internal emotional reality can shift so quickly, they’re genuinely in a different space than they were before. That intensity can make connection feel elusive for both people.
Eden:
As the partner of someone who's a Four—not me, but someone I know—I think the experience can be a little confusing. Like, “Wait, I thought we were on the same page, but now it feels like we’re not.” That emotional shift can be fast and intense.
Whitney:
Yes. A Four can feel settled one minute—and then be totally ramped up again just 10 minutes later. It can feel like emotional whiplash for their partner.
Eden:
But for the Four, those emotions are real. My sister-in-law, who knows the Enneagram well, has a Four son, and she says they try to validate his emotions as much as possible—but also not ride the rollercoaster with him. The goal is to help him stay in a tighter window of tolerance, shortening the extremes.
Whitney:
Exactly. Those peaks and valleys can feel too intense for others to be around. So Fours often get feedback that they’re “too much” and “not enough” at the same time—which only compounds their wound of feeling misunderstood.
Eden:
Yes. That combination of emotional intensity, unpredictability, and craving to be known makes me think of a fearful-avoidant attachment style—especially when paired with inconsistency in early caregiving.
Let’s jump to Type 5.
ENNEAGRAM FIVEs
Whitney:
Fives are the Investigators. They’re intellectual, curious, and have a deep desire to understand. Whatever their interest—gardening, tech, music—they’ll research it thoroughly. They love the planning and gathering phase… not always the doing.
Fives often experience anxiety in social settings or feel inadequate in relationships. Their core wound is: It’s not okay to be comfortable in the world.
Eden:
That immediately makes me think of core attachment needs like security and safety—both feel fragile for the Five.
Whitney:
Yes. And their lost childhood message is: Your needs are not a problem.
But many Fives grow up believing they are a problem, so they become self-sufficient, hoarding resources—whether that’s time, knowledge, or even finances—so they won’t have to rely on anyone.
Eden:
So from an attachment lens, this screams dismissive-avoidant. I’ve seen Fives avoid not only emotional expression, but even medical care—preferring to manage things alone.
Whitney:
Exactly. I know a Five who didn’t tell their partner about a medical diagnosis. They didn’t want to be a burden—or ask for help. Another example is my husband’s grandmother—she’s a Five. She doesn’t want anyone coming with her to appointments or dropping things off. She protects her space fiercely.
Eden:
I had a Five client once say to herself—out loud—“Be efficient with work, but effective with relationships. Not the other way around.” It was her internal reminder that connection matters, too.
Whitney:
Yes. Some Fives even say they don’t really want or need relationships. But underneath that is usually a fear of overwhelm or intrusion. The work toward secure attachment involves letting others in—even just a little—and learning that connection doesn’t mean chaos.
Eden:
Let’s move on to Type 6.
ENNEAGRAM SIXs
Whitney:
Sixes are the Loyalists. They’re devoted, practical, and hyperaware of potential danger. They’re the people with fire extinguishers in every room and backup plans for backup plans. Safety is everything.
Their wound is: It’s not okay to trust yourself.
So they look outside of themselves constantly—for validation, direction, and reassurance.
Eden:
Yes. That shows up as anxious-preoccupied attachment—always scanning the environment, relationships, or systems to figure out, “Am I safe? Am I doing the right thing?”
Whitney:
And their lost childhood message is: You are safe.
I’ve seen Sixes go to extreme lengths—like hiding valuables all over the house or installing complex security systems—just to create a sense of control.
Eden:
You mentioned Sixes as “worst-case scenario thinkers,” and I think they’re also worst-case scenario planners. They don’t just worry—they act.
Whitney:
Yes, and there are two subtypes—phobic and counterphobic—but it’s better understood now as a spectrum. Some Sixes avoid fear entirely, while others run straight toward it to prove they’re not afraid. And many fluctuate based on the context.
Eden:
Right. Counterphobic Sixes can even resemble Eights at times—strong, assertive, reactive—but it’s still fear-driven.
Whitney:
Exactly. And in relationship, a Six may stay too long—even in a harmful dynamic—because leaving would mean venturing into uncertainty. Their safety is often externally defined.
Eden:
That’s so helpful. A Six moving toward secure attachment is someone learning to trust themselves—to believe that safety can come from within, not just from others or circumstances.
Eden:
Okay, let’s talk about Type 7.
ENNEAGRAM SEVENs
Whitney:
Sevens are the Enthusiasts—fun-loving, high-energy, and always looking forward. Their core wound is: It’s not okay to depend on others.
So they rely on themselves—and usually, they’re running from pain.
Eden:
Yes, they live in the top half of the emotional range. Joy, excitement, adventure—yes. Sadness, grief, discomfort—no thanks.
Whitney:
Their lost childhood message is: You will be taken care of. But many Sevens didn’t experience that reliably, so they learned to take care of themselves—quickly, creatively, and without asking for help.
Eden:
That sounds like a mix of dismissive and disorganized attachment—craving connection, but avoiding vulnerability. My husband’s a Seven, and I’ve seen how hard it is for him to let someone care for him, even when he needs it.
Whitney:
Yes. They often avoid expressing needs altogether. So loving a Seven might mean offering support in ways they didn’t ask for—especially ones that surprise them with care.
Eden:
And for Sevens to move toward secure attachment, it means slowing down. Feeling the hard things. Learning that it’s okay to sit in discomfort—and let others sit there with you.
Eden:
On to Type 8.
ENNEAGRAM EIGHTs
Whitney:
Eights are the Challengers—strong, protective, and direct. Their wound is: It’s not okay to be vulnerable or trust anyone.
Their lost childhood message is: You will be betrayed.
So they armor up. They often become leaders—not because they want control—but because they don’t trust anyone else to lead safely.
Eden:
They’re doers. Efficient, decisive, and not easily swayed. But their strength is often a shield.
Whitney:
Exactly. And when Eights do trust someone, it’s a big deal. They don’t hand that over lightly. If that trust is broken—even slightly—it’s incredibly hard to rebuild.
Eden:
So in insecure relationships, Eights may come off as dominating or over-functioning—managing everything to stay in control.
Whitney:
Yes. Finances, decisions, responsibilities—they often take it all on, not just out of confidence, but out of protection. They need to feel that no one can betray or hurt them again.
Eden:
It’s largely dismissive-avoidant, but I’ve also seen some Eights who show up more anxiously—especially in codependent dynamics or when they’ve resigned to the idea that intimacy isn’t available, so they stop asking for it.
Whitney:
Absolutely. Some Eights will even lean into the role they’re accused of playing—“You think I’m a bully? Fine, I’ll be the bully.” It’s a form of resignation when they don’t feel seen or understood.
Eden:
For Eights, healing comes when they risk being vulnerable—and trust that someone will hold that vulnerability with care.
Eden:
Okay, last one—Type 9.
ENNEAGRAM NINEs
Whitney:
Nines are the Peacemakers. Calm, agreeable, and deeply relational. Their wound is: It’s not okay to assert yourself.
Their lost childhood message is: Your presence matters.
They tend to put others’ needs before their own—not just out of kindness, but to avoid conflict at all costs.
Eden:
Yes. I always describe Nines as “merge-y.” In conversations, decisions, even dinner plans—it’s often, “I’m good with whatever you want.”
Whitney:
Exactly. They’re in the withdrawing stance—along with Fours and Fives—which means they often retreat inward rather than act. They’re incredibly warm and steady, but also slow to assert or express.
Eden:
Attachment-wise, I see dismissive-avoidant patterns. Not out of coldness, but out of fear of conflict. Nines might dismiss their own feelings—or avoid bringing up something difficult with a partner.
Whitney:
Yes. In insecure relationships, they may have no voice at all. Their partner makes all the decisions, carries all the energy, while the Nine just goes along—until they don’t recognize themselves anymore.
Eden:
I think about Runaway Bride—Julia Roberts’ character had a different favorite egg order depending on who she was with. That’s the Nine energy: blending so completely that they lose sight of what they actually want.
Whitney:
Exactly. Healing for a Nine looks like tuning inward—asking, What do I want? What matters to me? And then saying it out loud, even if it causes a ripple.
Eden:
Yes—and when a Nine finally confronts you or says what they want, it’s not combative—it’s sacred. It means they feel safe enough to matter in that space.
Eden:
Well, Whitney, this was such a rich conversation. Where can people find you if they want to connect?
Whitney:
You can find me at bravehaven counseling.com or on Instagram at @WhitneyLPC.
Eden:
Perfect. Thanks so much for being here today.
Whitney:
Thanks for having me!
Eden (closing):
Thanks for joining today’s episode of Inside Out. Follow me on Instagram at @edenhyder to access all the extras from this season—and if you found this helpful, make sure to subscribe, share, or leave a review.
See you next time.